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12th Big 10 team

I think most of us would like to add Notre Dame if the conference was going to expand to 12, but we all know that Notre Dame will never join a conference as long as they have their own TV contract.  We have also heard other teams thrown around such as Pitt and Missouri.  I really don't know why either of those schools would leave their current conference for the Big 10.  Pitt would be helped for football, but would probably be taking steps backwards in basketball, not to mention that they would lose some exposure to big markets such as Philly, New York, Boston, and D.C. by exiting the Big East.  As for Missouri, I have no idea why they would want to move away from tradition, history, and rivalries of the Big XII.

Why not look west for other schools?  When the conference took Penn State, that seemed pretty far east to me but it works today.  So why not look to expand the footprint of the conference even more?  Here are some smaller schools that I think could be deserving of a promotion:

Boise State:  They have proved they belong with the big boys year after year.  They would certainly add a different element (think hybrid Pac10/Big 10 with a lot of creativity).  They would probably become less gimmicky with a promotion to the Big 10 as they get better recruits.  I personally would love to see a game on the smurf turf some time.  Their basketball team has been okay, but would definitely benefit from an upgrade in recruiting if admitted to the Big 10.  Their wrestling team could also give Minnesota and Iowa some competition as well since BSU currently competes in the Pac10 for that sport.

TCU:  The Horned Frogs actually have an outside chance at the national championship game this year if they win out (Alabama loses the Iron Bowl and then beats Florida in the SEC Championship game, or if Texas loses a game).  Plus, this would be a strategic move for the Big 10 to establish a bigger presence in Texas for recruiting.  TCU has finished in the top 25 three of the past four years and this could very well be the third time in five years that they have finished in the top 11.  The problem is that their basketball team blows, although a promotion to the Big 10 would help them some.

Utah:  The Utes have built a strong football program over the last 5 years.  They arguably were a national championship contender last year and have only a loss to Oregon as a blemish on their record this year.  They travel to Fort Worth to take on TCU next weekend which should decide the Mountain West champion.  The Utes reached the NCAA basketball tournament last year after being absent in recent years.  They do have a history of having good teams and could compete with the rest of the Big 10 right now in either sport.

Air Force:  The Falcons always seem to have a respectable football team.  I personally don't understand the hatred for the triple option since I think it is fun to watch the deception, but some people seem to have a problem with it.  Their team always plays hard, is never outhustled, and is always in the game.  A switch to the Big 10 probably wouldn't have much, if any, change on their recruiting (but it could positively affect the quality of their coaching staff) given that it is a service academy.  Air Force usually fields a decent basketball team, as well, although they were terrible last year.

These selections are based on athletics alone.  I don't know enough about each institution's academic record to speak intelligibly about that consideration.  Facilities would also be a factor, but I would think that any of these schools, with the exception of Air Force, would be willing to expand given the growth of revenue sources from the Big 10 conference.

Poll
Would any of these institutions be acceptable adds to the Big 10?
TCU
6 votes
Boise State
12 votes
Utah
6 votes
Air Force
3 votes
None of the above would be acceptable
64 votes

91 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 18 comments

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I think the only real objection

Is one of distance. You mention PSU, but if we consider the rough midpoint of the Big 10 to be Chicago… PSU is the farthest away at 581 miles. After that is Minny at 410 and OSU at 350. All other schools are somewhere in the 100-300 range, with Northwestern being like 10 miles away.

Of the schools you’ve proposed, Boise State is 1,695 miles away, Utah is 1,399 miles away, Air Force is 1,074, and TCU is 992. So, the only school on that list that would be remotely close is TCU and they are nearly double the distance from us as PSU is.

Besides Notre Dame, I think an argument could be made for Temple (758)… though they aren’t usually very good, or Memphis (531). The only problem with Memphis is that they aren’t very good at football and would crush us in basketball….

by hmlee on Nov 8, 2009 9:28 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

What about CMU?

Central Michigan has quietly built a solid program. Brian Kelly (now coaching Cincinnati) took the program from nowhere to the top of the MAC. They won conference titles in 06 and 07, and are looking good to take the title this year as well. That could come down to a MAC championship game in Detroit against…

Temple, who is all of a sudden a decent football team. They’re destroying the MAC East this year, and they beat Navy a week before Navy beat a certain team that plays in South Bend. I think that addition could make sense. It’s crazy that I’m saying that about a team that just turned D1-A a few years ago. (I still can’t bring myself to use the FBS/FCS acronyms.)

I think that while the quality of these teams is certainly nowhere near Boise State/TCU/Utah, they would make much more sense from a geographic and travel standpoint.

Then again, as a Badger fan, I don’t know if I could support admitting CMU to the Big 10. That’s just way too much maroon and gold for me.

"Career highlights? I had two. I got an intentional walk from Sandy Koufax and I got out of a rundown against the Mets." - Bob Uecker

by texwestern on Nov 8, 2009 9:51 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

CMU

has done a nice job, but I’m not sure they are up to snuff yet. Yes, they were able to beat MSU earlier this year, but they haven’t proved what Utah, TCU, or Boise State have proved over a slightly longer time period and against bigger opponents.

by rencito on Nov 8, 2009 11:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The WAC travels to Hawaii

I agree distance would be an issue, but midwesterners could make a ski trip to Salt Lake City, Boise, or CO Springs. I agree Notre Dame is the frontrunner. What about Louisville and Cincinnati? Both are closer than Happy Valley, and both have been good at football at times, and are perenially good basketball programs. The problem I have with TCU is that Texas, Texas A&M, and Texas Tech are in the Big XII, and adding TCU to the already poorly perceived BigXI wouldn’t help, IMO.

by Maizefed on Nov 8, 2009 9:56 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Not sure what you mean

by “Texas, Texas A&M, and Texas Tech are in the Big XII, and adding TCU to the already poorly perceived BigXI wouldn’t help.”

TCU was better than even Texas Tech last year (only losses were to Utah and Oklahoma, the latter was “only” 35-10 whereas TTU lost to OU 65-21), and have been better than A&M for a while. Again, I think getting Big 10 exposure in Texas would be a strategically shrewd move for the BigXI. They are always trying to get bowl games in Texas for the exposure, so this would help even more.

I’m not really sure what Louisville and Cincinnati have to gain by switching from the Big East. The Big East is an easier road to the BCS for them in football, and they are good basketball programs in the premier conference. From a geographic standpoint, I get it, but I think it would take a promotion to get a team to make the move. I guess the B10 is just holding out until that one day when NBC doesn’t have the money to pay the Irish. But that is going to be quite a while, if ever.

by rencito on Nov 8, 2009 11:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps I'm wrong..

…in perceiving the Big XII Texas schools as being stronger programs over time. Perhaps it’s only conference affiliation that causes me to think so. I agree recruiting would likely benefit more by the Big 10 having more exposure in Texas. I see how the move for Cincy and Louisville wouldn’t be advantageous for them. Considering basketball, I think Utah is the best choice presented. I imagine the Fainting Irish would have to hit rock bottom before becoming gettable.

by Maizefed on Nov 9, 2009 12:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Great Alternative Take on Possible Additions

But none of these schools is a member of the prestigious Association of American Universities. Every school on the current Big Ten roster is.

I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

The Rivalry, Esq.
The quintessential Big Ten smoking room.

by Law Buckeye on Nov 9, 2009 9:35 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Well, in that case...

…let’s go international by inviting the University of Toronto since they are closer and are part of the prestigious Association of American Universities. They tied the Michigan Wolverines a few years ago and they claim to have invented American football. They will probably have trouble with always wanting to punt on 3rd down, however.

by rencito on Nov 9, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Guess who also isn't a part of...

…the prestigious Association of American Universities?

That’s right. Notre Dame.

by rencito on Nov 9, 2009 2:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just as a note here...

… any team in the Big East would immediately accept a Big Ten invite. Anyone who thinks otherwise has no conception of how much more revenue the Big Ten brings in. So Pitt or Syracuse or Rutgers are there if you want us, no matter how much tradition we’ve got with the Big East and love basketball and the Big East tournament in NYC.

by drothgery on Nov 9, 2009 12:49 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Let just imagine we get a 12th team

Then how do we split the conference up?

Do we do a north south, east west, or just a draft. Oh the debate that would ensue.

I like 11 teams. Just wish we played all 10 others in football, with 2 cupcakes early in the year. But money would never allow this either. Sad.

Its a funny story actually.

by Wad on Nov 10, 2009 12:48 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Me thinks...

…this makes the most sense in terms of preserving most traditional rivalries:

Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio State, Iowa, New Team

Michigan State, Penn State, Northwestern, Illinois, Indiana, Purdue

But, perhaps Michigan and Ohio State can be swapped with Northwestern and Illinois to balance the power (the first division above looks VERY strong compared to the other, but the case can be made that what the power looks like now is just short term).

Really, the most storied rivalries in the Big 10 are probably Ohio State/Michigan, Indiana/Purdue, Minnesota/Wisconsin. After that, I’m not sure the other rivalries are THAT important. Maybe Michigan State/Michigan and Minnesota/Iowa (not including Minnesota/Michigan because they don’t play every year now anyways). As long as those are preserved somehow, I don’t think the rest really matters.

by rencito on Nov 10, 2009 6:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not entirely opposed to adding a 12th team but I’m also not endorsing the idea.

I think adding a 12th team would be a bit damaging to the meaning of certain games. Case in point, the OSU/Mich rivalry. As we all know, this is usually the game that crowns the conference champs. Its the last game of the year, one of the biggest rivalries in all of sports, and more times than not, its a nail-biter.

Scenario A: The Big 10 splits into two divisions and OSU and Mich are in the same group. They can still play at the end of the year, and it will still be a huge game, but whats this? No conference title on the line? Sigh

Scenario B: The Big 10 splits into two divisions and OSU and Mich are in different groups. There’s a chance that only one team, or neither, make it to the title game. They don’t play each other and no one is happy. Sigh

However, this just came to mind; Add a 12th team, do the split, and expand the schedule so everyone plays everyone AND we have a conference championship game. I’m just shooting from the hip, so does it sound reasonable?

Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!

by BLAZER_FAN_199 on Nov 12, 2009 8:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think

With regards to Michigan and Ohio State, you follow the example of the SEC. Protect the Rivalry while putting them in opposing divisions. Then they could play twice if they both win their divisions and potentially be a double spoiler to their biggest rival.

by Lostincali on Nov 12, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

expansion

I think an eastern tean with acess to the new york media market would be a huge plus. Helps with recruiting and revenue.

by psu in the w-b on Nov 10, 2009 6:13 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I still think Texas

is more important than NY. I used to live in the northeast. They don’t care about college sports at all. If anything, maybe basketball.

by rencito on Nov 10, 2009 6:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Discussion from last year

This is whom we discussed adding…

This is what a 12 team B10 would look like…

The Rivalry, Esq.
"Ricky Stanzi is to interceptions as Journey is to 80s rock ballads...inextricably linked."

by grahamfiller10 on Nov 11, 2009 1:21 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Here's my take

I posted this over at WWAHT and my now defunct blog The Purple Buckeye. It’s long, it’s got several options on teams, most of which are in the AAU, and it was developed with a buddy of mine…a Michigan fan, so it’s bi-partisan!! And it only costs $850 billion over 10 years…wait, wrong plan. Anyways, enjoy:

So, who should the Big 10 add? I think the most natural answer, both from a geographic standpoint and rivalry standpoint, is Notre Dame. Adding Notre Dame makes perfect sense. They add to an already rich history, the addition is mutually beneficial for both the school and the conference, and they have natural rivalrieas already set up with Michigan, Michigan State, and Purdue. And when setting up the divisions, let’s be more creative than North/South or East/West. I think the conference should be split geographically along an East West orientation, but let’s call the divisions the Great Lakes and the Great Plains Division, because it’s cool.

So, breaking down the divisions would look something like this:

Great Plains (West):
Minnesota
Iowa
Wisconsin
Northwestern
Illinois
Notre Dame

Great Lakes (East):
Michigan
Micigan State
Purdue
Indiana
Ohio State
Penn State

In the Great Plains, you keep natural/trophy/historic rivals MN-IA, MN-WI, IA-WI and NU-IL. In the Great Lakes, you keep natural/historic/trophy games with UM-MSU, IN-MSU, MSU-PSU, The Game, and PU-IN. Notre Dame still keeps their MSU and UM rivalry games because they can still play them every year, and then rotate between the remaining four teams in the division. The only real rival/trophy games that stands out as one that is in yearly jeopardy is the UM-MN game for the Little Brown Jug, but you can easily schedule a UM-MN game on a yearly basis. And really, when one team wins the trophy once every 20-25 years, how much of a rivalry is it? The OSU-IL game for the Illibuck isn’t a yearly game anymore, either, and there’s no real rivalry there, as much as Illinois might think so.

I think Notre Dame is the obvious answer, but they do align with the Big East in other major sports like basketball, so I could see them going to the Big East if they abandon their independent status. If not Notre Dame, I think there are a few possibilities that would be intriguing, and somewhat out of the box. Keeping in mind that a new entry into the Big 10 must be a school that borders a current Big 10 state (Big 10 rule), the pick would come from the Big East or Big XII North. I think Pitt, Cincinnati, or West Virginia would be prime candidates to join. Pitt has an up and coming team, and could renew an historic rivalry with Penn State. Cincinnati football has been revived under Brian Kelly, and they would play a perfect New Jersey Generals to Ohio State’s Harlem Globetrotters on a yearly basis. West Virginia fans are still bitter about Rich Rodriguez going to Michigan, so if RichRod can be successful in Ann Arbor, that makes for great theater, and a great rivalry. So let’s replace Nore Dame with one of these three teams. Division breakdown looks something like this:

Great Lakes (East):
Penn State
Pitt or Cincy or WVU
OSU
UM
MSU
Indiana

Great Plains (West):
Purdue
NU
IL
WI
MN
IA

Again, most rivalry/trophy games of meaning are left intact, with the main exception of the Old Oaken Bucket game. But again, on a case by case basis, you can schedule natural rivals in different division every year, and rotate the remaining teams through the schedule. But with Pitt in, you would revive a great Pitt-PSU rivalry, and there would be a natural geographical rivalry with OSU. And with kids growing up in Northern Ohio hating the Steelers, it might help recruiting…who knows? Cincinnati has a natural rivalry with OSU, West Virginia with OSU, Michigan, and Penn State.

Let’s look west. The Big XII has taken a decidedly southern flavor in recent years, and that’s okay…for some. For the old Big 8 crowd, it isn’t sitting well. Big XII headquarters was moved from Kansas City to Dallas, and the conference championship game is going there as well, thanks to Jerry Jones and his billion dollar playground. From the Big XII, I see two possibilities, Missouri and Nebraska. Mizzou is a longshot, though, because they have a rivalry in Kansas that is every bit as bitter as OSU-UM. Even though they have a budding rivalry with Illinois, I don’t see them giving up over 100 years of the Border War for the Arch rivalry.

So that leaves…wait for it…Nebraska. Yeah, Nebraska. Another powerhouse program on the way to redemption, with only a faded rivalry with Oklahoma keeping them where they are now. And the ruination of the grat Oklahoma-Nebraska rivalry was the prime reason that I feel you need to keep OSU-UM in the same division. They only play every few years now, and at one time it was one of the top three rivalries in the country. So if you can add Nebraska, it would look something like this:

Great Plains (West):
Minnesota
Iowa
Wisconsin
Northwestern
Illinois
Nebraska

Great Lakes (East):
Michigan
Micigan State
Purdue
Indiana
Ohio State
Penn State

The only drawback is that there aren’t any rivalries that jump out for Nebraska in the Big 10, but Iowa and Wisconsin, the two strongest programs in that division, would quickly become top rivals with the Cornhuskers.

Now, for the conference championship game. It could be rotated throughout the Midwest, and there are some great facilities that can host it. Lucas Oil Field in Indianapolis, Soldier Field, Ford Field in Dertoit, even the new Vikings stadium, if they ever build the damn thing. But how about, at least in the inagural championship game, you go to Lambeau Field?

You have the Mecca of football (and God I hate to say that as a Vikes fan) hosting one of the most historic games in college fottbal history. It would make great theater.

"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."

--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre

by MilCardFan on Nov 19, 2009 5:10 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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