The Rivalry, Esq.: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: Voodoo Five for South Florida Bulls Fans!

Do SEC Fans Love Football More Than Big 10 Fans?

The title wasn't supposed to be so provocative. Oh well.

I won't act like the pop singer who releases a song entitled "F****** Goats" and is deeply offended by the ensuing controversy. "Come on," he twitters, "F****** Goats is an offshoot of my artistic expression. Don't disrespect art!"

Everyone knows it's a controversial subject. ESPN v BTN. Speed v Off Tackle. Filling stadiums in bad or good times (do we have statistical proof?) v. Not doing that. But it's a semi useless, albeit interesting topic that gets kicked around constantly. So just some basic assertions I think hold some weight.

The answer to the question is no. SEC fans don't love football more. Loving your CFB experience or team just isn't a quantifiable thing. I asked T Kyle King of Dawg Sports if SEC fans were in love with football more than B10 fans - We'll consider his response dispositive:

Five years ago, I would have answered that question unequivocally in the affirmative, but, after spending four years in the blogosphere, I am less sure that this is the case. No one can doubt, for instance, that MGoBlog's Brian Cook is as heartfelt a Michigan fan as I am a Georgia fan.

Exactly. There is no way to compare fan passions, because college football is an individual experience. That comparison is a long, homerific road to arguments with no logical conclusions. The Penn State fan who camped out in 2005 before the OSU game cannot be compared to the dude who FOIA requested Houston Nutt's sexy texts to that reporter.

But the SEC fan does love differently. Ignore the Backstreet Boys-ish wording. But hey, the occasional crazy dies over his love of sport down South. That has to count for something? Again I quote T Kyle:

Every day of my professional life, I look out my office window at a railroad track that had to be rebuilt after the Battle of Jonesboro marked the end of William T. Sherman's Atlanta Campaign. My home town was burned to the ground as a result of that military defeat. My great-great-grandfather was imprisoned in a POW camp in Point Lookout, Maryland, as a result of his decision to defend his homeland from an invading army. If I said I didn't get a visceral sense of payback whenever I see a Big Ten team lose to an SEC team, I'd be lying.

Just because this site's mascot used much of your home town to fulfill all the legal elements of arson does not make you a better or more dedicated supporter. But it certainly adds an element to your identity as a college football fan. Ditto for discussing your grandfather's imprisonment in correlation with college football. Team Speed Kills adds:

if you look back at the 1920's and 30's Alabama and Georgia Tech teams (the South's first champions), they were doing more than just playing games when they faced northern teams.  They were attempting to atone for a Civil War loss.

So what have we? I told you, there are no helpful conclusions. This article will give you as much closure as the last 25 minutes of No Country For Old Men. But I think it's helpful to note that the Iowa fan getting hammered at 8 in the morning near Kinnick is pretty damn similar to the 'Bama fan throwing on a tie and khakis to attend a night game at Bryant-Denny. I'm just glad we're all watching football and not fighting civil wars.

1 recs  |  Comment 17 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

No Pros

I’ve lived in Iowa, Illinois, Ohio, Missouri and Alabama. I feel curiously situated to answer your initial question. After much deliberation, I’ll add this. The most die-hard fan of the Tide (or Vols…or Gators) loves his team no more or less than the most die-hard fan of the Buckeyes (or Badgers…or Hawkeyes).

From my observations, however, there are three ways in which you can state that the SEC fans love college football more: 1) the sheer number of the die-hard fans in the South dwarfs the number in the Midwest; 2) the level of unabashed hatred for rival schools is unlike anything (and I mean ANYTHING) that exists in the Big Ten; and 3) there is a focus on college football that is not distracted by trivial things (like MLB, NFL, NHL, and NBA).

That third point is both cause and effect in some ways.

Texas got pro football in 1961. The Falcons and Saints didn’t exist until the end of the decade. For the forty plus years that Penn State, Michigan, and Illinois had to compete with the Eagles, Lions and Bears, the South only had Saturday football. Baseball didn’t even come to the region until 1966 when the Braves moved from Milwaukee.

This meant fewer sports to talk about, but more importantly, fewer sports to be reared on. I think of it this way: I learned to love sports watching it with my Dad. He grew up a Bears fan, a Cubs fan, a DePaul fan (his alma mater) and a Blackhawks fan. Now I root for the White Sox over the Cubs (like my mother) but otherwise, I still root for the same teams as my father. If he was born in Atlanta, Birmingham, Baton Rouge, or Nashville, my father would have had no local pro teams to grow up with and only had his alma mater. As a result, what teams do you think he would have passed on to me? His college team of choice. We’ve finally reached second-generation Atlanta Braves fans. It will be a long time before there are second generation Nashville Predator fans. Much like we’re into the fifth generation of Packers fans, we’re into the fifth generation of Georgia fans.

by Bama Hawkeye on Jul 7, 2009 9:20 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Bingo

I absolutely agree. The SEC die hards and Big Ten die hards love their teams just as much, but the absence of pro sports for a long, long time minted a lot more die hards in the southeast. And states like Alabama, South Carolina, and Arkansas still don’t have any pro teams.

Unfortunately I can’t find it anymore, but the late Ralph Wiley wrote a great column on rivalries for ESPN.com shortly before he passed on. He recounted an anecdote of being at a Buccaneers game in Tampa in November, and fights were breaking out in the stands between Bucs fans that stood on either side of the Florida/Florida State rivalry. If that doesn’t illustrate the point best, I don’t know what does.

Team Speed Kills
SBNation's SEC Blog

by Year2 on Jul 9, 2009 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

2006

I have an anecdote similar to this story:

Unfortunately I can’t find it anymore, but the late Ralph Wiley wrote a great column on rivalries for ESPN.com shortly before he passed on. He recounted an anecdote of being at a Buccaneers game in Tampa in November, and fights were breaking out in the stands between Bucs fans that stood on either side of the Florida/Florida State rivalry. If that doesn’t illustrate the point best, I don’t know what does.

In 2006, I traveled from Birmingham to Nashville for a soccer game between the United States and Morocco. I was waiting in line to enter the stadium and was wearing an Alabama hat along with my USA t-shirt and I started hearing a “War Eagle” chant from a couple of guys. I looked over and my Alabama friends and I started yelling back. I wasn’t going to fist fight with the guys or anything, but it was certainly not friendly jabbing between rivals either. So there we were, in another state, at an event completely unrelated to our sport and on the same side for the day and we starting screaming and yelling at each other. Needless to say, the Moroccans standing around us were confused by what was going on.

by Nico2.0 on Jul 9, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And there it is

Did you catch it?

So there we were, in another state, at an event completely unrelated to our sport and on the same side for the day and we starting screaming and yelling at each other.

Soccer is actually a sport that is played at both Alabama and Auburn. Yet hearing “war eagle” and “Roll Tide” at a soccer match seems just as out of place as it would have been at the Grand Ole Opry (maybe more?). That’s what is so different about the focus down here. And it’s great — as long as you’re not trying to build a basketball or soccer program.

by Bama Hawkeye on Jul 9, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pro Teams

Grant Field (site of Bobby Dodd Stadium) is the oldest on-campus stadium in all of Div I football. It was the local team for Atlantans, regardless of a fan’s direct college affiliation (UGA alumni excepted). One of the many reasons for Tech’s departure from the SEC that’s been floating around for the last 40+ years is that the conference decided to impose scholarship limits. Bobby Dodd, swimming in the money that flowed from having a major stadium in the biggest market in the conference’s footprint, objected.

But I digress. Take a look at GT’s record before the Falcons arrived and since. As a local resident, it is my sense that the breadth of fan passion, if not the extent among die-hard fans, has likewise declined. Sure, the NFL expansion isn’t the only reason (the aforementioned conference departure, changing demographics within college athletics in the South (that’s, um, veiled), but once Atlanta football fans with no GT ties had something else to do, Tech ceased to be a target for non-alumnus college football fan passion.

Everywhere else in the South, if you didn’t go to college at all or didn’t go to a Div I school, there’s a fair amount of pressure to declare an allegiance to a team. Maybe it was a studied decision. Maybe your uncle gave you a Crimson Tide sweatshirt for Christmas one year. But you must do it.

by NCT on Jul 9, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point about the presence of pro teams makes a lot of sense

As an Illinois alum, I believe that I love the Illini as much as any SEC fan loves his or her team. However, as a lifelong Chicagoan, I’m also a diehard Bears, Bulls, and White Sox fan (with heightened interest in the Blackhawks). Therefore, I don’t have a 365-days-per-year focus on all things Illini. All of the other Big Ten schools (except for Iowa) are also strongly tied to major markets with multiple pro teams, so while the passion of our fans would match the intensity of the SEC on a football Saturday, we have other teams to watch the other 6 days of the week. In contrast, I could see how living in Alabama would translate into a complete focus on the Crimson Tide or Auburn even if it’s in the middle of June.

I would say this about the Big Ten, though – compared to other conferences that have schools with fan bases in strong pro team markets (i.e. New York, Boston, etc.), we compared extremely favorably. The fact that we are able to amass such large fan bases even though we AREN’T the only teams in our respective towns is a testament to our passion.

by Frank the Tank on Jul 7, 2009 2:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Pro Teams

I agree with many of the comments above. I think the SEC probably has more fans because there is a lack of proximity and limited history with pro sports franchises. You could compare this to Nebraska whose fans are as passionate as any (don’t we all wish we could claim 300 straight sell outs?).

by NIU_Roadkill on Jul 10, 2009 3:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

nebraska is a great example – single mindedness that trumps everything

by grahamfiller10 on Jul 10, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Geesh.
Every day of my professional life, I look out my office window at a railroad track that had to be rebuilt after the Battle of Jonesboro marked the end of William T. Sherman’s Atlanta Campaign. My home town was burned to the ground as a result of that military defeat. My great-great-grandfather was imprisoned in a POW camp in Point Lookout, Maryland, as a result of his decision to defend his homeland from an invading army. If I said I didn’t get a visceral sense of payback whenever I see a Big Ten team lose to an SEC team, I’d be lying.

Sniffle. It’s a damn injustice that the Union Army decided to finish a war that the South started. A war fought in support of the most vile tradition this country has ever known. General Grant said it best in his 1885 autobiography:

For the present, and so long as there are living witnesses of the great war of sections, there will be people who will not be consoled for the loss of a cause which they believed to be holy. As time passes, people, even of the South, will begin to wonder how it was possible that their ancestors ever fought for or justified institutions which acknowledged the right of property in man.

If Grant had foreseen the Confederacy nostalgia industry, he probably would have strung up Robert E. Lee himself. If the Germans and Japanese are still upset that they lost WWII, at least they have the good sense to shut up about it. And some now-living Germans and Japanese actually lived through it, unlike the Dixie-holics who are internalizing the indignities suffered by their great-great-great-granddaddies.

I’m not much a “conference pride” guy, but if SEC fans really view each win over the Big Ten as revenge for a war than their ancestors richly deserved to lose, then I think I will take a little pleasure each time a damn Yankee team gets the better of a team from the SEC.

The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog

by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Jul 12, 2009 10:05 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh, need I even mention the miles-deep irony that the SEC teams that provide these “revenge wins” over the Big Ten are overwhelmingly comprised of the descendants of the people that Kyle King’s ancestors were determined to keep in chains?

None of my ancestors were in the United States in the 1860s, so I have no dog or dawg in this fight. And I don’t contend for a moment that the Union Army was a bunch of civil rights-minded freedom-fighters. But the lack of purity of the Union’s motives doesn’t for a second mitigate the objectively repugnant purpose of the confederacy.

The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog

by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Jul 12, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nail on the head
None of my ancestors were in the United States in the 1860s, so I have no dog or dawg in this fight.

The Southeastern United States is disproportionately (by far) populated with people who are descended from people who directly participated in or were directly affected by that war. Many of us live on or near land on which buildings were burned to the ground and basic sustenance stolen by what was viewed as an invading military — mostly land that was never worked by a single slave, by the way.

The resentment may have been misguided, but the resentment that was passed down had nothing to do with whether ending slavery was a noble cause but everything to do with knowing that someone from somewhere else marched through stealing chickens, slaughtering livestock, burning houses, and kidnapping women — from households whose names appear in the family Bible sitting over there. War sucks, slavery was indeed repugnant, preservation of the Union was the correct result, but that the “right side won” doesn’t for a second mitigate the collateral damage suffered by innocent women and children to whom many of us are directly related. And as for stringing up Robert E. Lee, it was plenty significant that Lee’s home was turned into Arlington National Cemetery.

All that having been said, I personally make no connection between gridiron contests and the Civil War. I’m just trying to offer up some things to consider before every Southerner with regional pride is viewed as some kind of slavery apologist.

by NCT on Jul 14, 2009 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough.

And I don’t mean to suggest that all regional pride is based in slavery apologism. Still, the war ended 144 years ago. No one alive today lived through it and no one young enough to be commenting on this blog ever knew anyone who lived through it. It simply strikes me as odd that the Germans and Japanese, whose still living citizens over the age of 64 actually lived through the war themselves, seem to have moved on more willingly than Dixie.

Since you don’t make the connection between the Civil War and SEC-Big Ten football matchups, I have no beef with you. I still have difficulty with the original comment because of the notion that the south’s loss in 1865 is something bad that is to be avenged.

The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog

by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Jul 14, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not familiar with the Germans’ having gotten over it as an accepted notion. I mean, if Vonnegut never got over Dresden, it seems likely to me that there would be one or two Germans who didn’t, either. Hell, I met no small number of Frenchmen of all ages who were polite but who were obviously stifling a fair amount of displeasure over the destruction wrought by the Allies in Normandie. Wow. Anyway, Kyle’s not a “South shall rise again” type. But it’s sort of required among some of us Southerners to adopt a posture of resentment against the Invading Yankees who, with the advent of A/C and the decline of manufacturing in the Midwest have invaded again. None of it has to be taken very seriously. History, like football, can be entertaining.

by NCT on Jul 14, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would never blame someone who was there for not “getting over it.” I think my main beef is the fact that the war ended 144 years ago. When will it become silly? 244 years? 344 years? 744 years?

The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog

by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Jul 15, 2009 5:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soon

My grandparents are dead, and the stories they heard from their parents and grandparents are not that likely to be passed on to my kids, and certainly with much less fear and horror. Those kinds of things get diluted over time. Likewise, the frequency with which people in this region are portrayed as stereotypically uneducated and unsophisticated continues to decrease over time, so there’s less and less stimulus for resentment. I mean, there are great schools in the Midwest and all, but the concept of state universities was born in the South, after all.

And it will all be over once and for all when Michigan comes to Athens for the first time to repay UGA for the trips to Ann Arbor.

by NCT on Jul 15, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts are...

go to hell.

Thanks for your thoughts on the subject.

by JoeinSavannah on Jul 16, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BTW,

since it’s hard to see based on the positioning of my last comment, it is intended for John M. of Indiana. I know, I’m sorry to all (except him) and banned probably

by JoeinSavannah on Jul 16, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools


We're Defending the Rock all week long.

Start posting on The Rivalry, Esq. »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Avatar_small
Intersting Google Maps feature
Avatar_small
Thought on Notre Dame football
Small
NOTRE DAME & THE BIG TEN
Cigar_small
Under Armor All-America High School Football Game
Dodge_front_small
Gophers need to hire Mike Leach
Oscar-gamble-avatar_small
The Big Ten Expansion Index
Small
"THE HOLLAND PLAN" BIG-10 EXPANSION

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SBNation.com Recent Stories

Tennessee running back Bryce Brown (11) runs past Ohio's Melvin Payne (55), Dak Notestine (51) and Lee Renfro (32) during the first half of an NCAA college football game Saturday, Sept. 26, 2009 in Knoxville, Tenn. Tennessee won 34-23. (AP Photo/Wade Payne) +1 updates

Bryce Brown Leaving Tennessee? Former 5-Star RB 'Not A Part Of The Team'

Ohio State head coach Jim Tressel, left, jokes with offensive lineman Bryant Browning (70) before taking the team picture during an NCAA college football media day, Thursday, Aug,13, 2009, in Columbus, Ohio. (AP Photo/Terry Gilliam)

Jim Tressel Receives Two-Year Contract Extension, No Raise

The offensive line is reflected in the visor of Wisconsin running back John Clay during the second half of an NCAA football game against Michigan, Saturday, Nov. 14, 2009, in Madison, Wis. (AP Photo/Morry Gash) link

Wisconsin RB John Clay Will Miss Entire Spring Season

More from SBNation.com >


Managers

M_small grahamfiller10

Cigar_small Law Buckeye

Bama_hawkeye_small Bama Hawkeye

Editors

Wrigley_small hmlee

Authors

Caddyshack12_small jerdogg1

N2200586_33075576_4358_small GregGoBlue

Small Paterno Ave

Official Partner of CBS Sports